Denominations [numisdata33]

Manuel Gozalbes

It's a well-known fact that the concept denominations [numisdata33] doesn't fit well among the inventories. The natural model for that kind of content is a thesaurus. If we all agree with this movement, for sure, Alex & Paco can handle it to put everything in the right place.
There are important issues related to the denominations section that will have to be solved in the future that also require a thesaurus. Specifically, we need to relate denominations to monetary systems or units of account.
In addition, for the monedaiberica.org project, we also need to establish the value relationship among different denominations to make comparisons of minted wealth on a common basis.

@elena @Gosvinta @rca @Alice Baeta @Jonas von Felten

rca

... YES, in DISCO we need a thesaurus for denominations as well.

Coinage systems, equivalents, values - that will be a huge task for medieval/modern, indeed ... especially as the equivalents and values change over time. That is definitely NOT one of the next tasks for us in Switzerland, although it would be nice to know the total value of a hoard of mixed coins from Germany/Austria/Italy/France/Switzerland immediately!

@elena @Manuel Gozalbes @Alice Baeta @Gosvinta @Jonas von Felten

elena

Good idea! I agree to move denominations to a thesaurus. But, will it be shared by all of us? Or everyone has to hierarquize their one denominations to an individual thesaurus?

Alex

That makes sense. I have a question: Do denominations need a separate thesaurus, or is it a branch of an existing thesaurus? If a new one were to be created, what TLD would be appropriate?

Best

Manuel Gozalbes

I'm not sure to set it as a separate thesaurus. My first question is:
denominations can be treated as part of the object thesaurus?
where, coin [model: object] is the parent of drachm [model: denomination] and as [model: denomination]?

elena

I have just reviewed the thesaurus of numismatics from the Ministery of Spain.
https://tesauros.cultura.gob.es/tesauros/numismatica/1187422#c-2031537000

There you can see it is set as Manuel says. Coín (object) as parent of a lot of denominations.

rca

I just checked with Jonas, that solution might work for us as well!

Alex

So, the change will be, to move the denomination data to Object thesaurus under the Coin node in object and setting the denomination typology for all transferred nodes.

That's ok? and how we deal with it? because the Coin node could be different in every installation... do you have introduced in your thesaurus a common definition to identify the Coin node and the Denomination typology node?

For Coin node would be possible to use:

For Denomination node would be possible to use:

And it needs to be in the URI hierarchy89 field of the node.

For instance. If you set the nomisma id for the coin node in your object thesaurus and denomination id for the typology in your node thesaurus. Then we can change your data automatically, creating the new nodes (moving your current denomination data) and replacing the data that are calling they as Type records that are calling to denomination.

But, if you don't have any of the common definitions, we cannot find the nodes, or we can try to find by name, but it can be set in different languages as coin, coins, monedas, moneda, etc... and if we don't found it we cannot transfer the denomination data automatically. therefore, in those cases, you can move your data manually.

It could be good plan?

Best.

elena

Hi Alex and Paco, thank you both for your help and efforts. I don't know if we meet the requirements for the automatical movement of data. We are ussing things as you gave us at the very begginig, adding all the nomisma definitions of denominations (without URI).
Can you help?

Thanks!

Alex

elena

In order to locate automatically the «Coin» descriptor in thesaurus, the Coin node needs to have defined in the URI field any common standard, as I explained before.

locate the Coin node in your object thesaurus (it has object1 ontology tipo), if you don't have it, create new one.

edit it and set any or all of the standard URI's

Done for Coin.

For «Denominnation». Denomination is a specific king of objects, and we need to distinguish between other objects, to disambiguated the descriptors, you need to define the concept in «Model» object thesaurus (as a typology of the object nodes, it has object2 as ontology tipo).

For ex:

1 Unit ---> Denomination
Roman ---> Monetary system
- 1 Dracme ---> Denomination
Euro ---->Monetary system
- 1 Euro ---> Denomination
- 2 Euros ---> Denomination

etc,

1 locate the Denomination node in your object model thesaurus, if you don't have it, create new one.

2, edit it and set any or all of the standard URI's

With the both standards definitions in the URI field, is possible to locate the nodes and move the denominations to correct places.

I hope is clear.

Best

Alex

You need to see your «Hierarchy» definition of the «Object» thesaurus, and set the main model node in this way:

If you don't have this set, the tree cannot show it.

Best

elena

Thank you!! I have already done it as you have tell us, for COIN but... in Thematic, I don't have tld [object2_1] but just icon2_1, I am not sure if this is correct

![
](https://)

Can you tell me if this is correct @Alex , please?

Kindest regards

elena

Done! Thank you! So we are ready for the automatical movement of data?

Alex

The update to v6.8.0 will automatically move the old Denomination numisdata33 section to the Coin node within the Object (object1) thesaurus, as per the plan.

One question remains unanswered:

In the diffusion ontology for numisdata, the old Denomination has a public table in MySQL/MariaDB named denomination. numisdata944

In the update, the diffusion ontology was mapped to get the information with the new situation (pointing to the Object thesauri) and all related works.
Is the table name correct, or should it be changed to object to maintain coherence with the new situation?
This change implies that the current websites need to modify their code to point to this new situation. What are your thoughts on this? Should we change the table name or not?
Another option is to keep the existing denomination table and create a new one with the object name. If you don't modify the web, everything will continue functioning. However, it could be confusing because you'll have two tables with the same data.

After the update, check the object1 section to see the Denominations records and apply the correct "Descriptor", "is indexable" and fill complete the organisation or other things.

Best

Alex

Hi again.

One main thing remains for all projects. The unanswered question of diffusion and web ontology.

Alex One question remains unanswered:

In the diffusion ontology for numisdata, the old Denomination has a public table in MySQL/MariaDB named denomination. numisdata944

I think that we need to remove the denomination table numisdata944 and use a new ts_object table, that resolve correctly the new situation. The old table is flat resolution, without parent/children resolution,...

So, I update the ontology to use the new global ts_object to obtain the denominations.

The webs must change to point the new table instead use of old denominations.

Ok, we mapped all to the new situation but, to simplify all, follow this:

Diffusion: Change from denomination to ts_object for the web template.

1 - Update Ontology (section ts_object is added as table in web_numisdata_default diffusion db)
2 - Publish section object1
3 - Change file ./tpl/analysis/analysis.js function load_denomination_colors table denomination to ts_object
4 - Change file ./tpl/type/type.js function get_row_data to use ts_object instead of denomination in resolve_portals_custom.

E.g.

{
    resolve_portals_custom : {
        "bibliography_data"			: "bibliographic_references",
        "ref_coins_union"			: "coins",
        "coin_references"			: "coins",
        "coins.bibliography_data"		: "bibliographic_references",
        "ref_coins_findspots_data"		: "findspots",
        "findspots.bibliography_data"		: "bibliographic_references",
        "ref_coins_hoard_data"			: "hoards",
        "hoards.bibliography_data"		: "bibliographic_references",
        // "denomination_data"			: "denomination", // changes to ts_object
        "denomination_data"			: "ts_object",
        "material_data"				: "material",
        "related_types_data"			: "types",
        "mint_data"				: "mints"
    }
}

I hope is clear.

Best

Markus

Hi all,

Unfortunately, during our latest update, we encountered an error related to this change.

The reason is that we had to run two updates in a row. I think I messed it up. I followed the order we had written down. First the backup, then the Ontology update (Official Server), then Update Code, Update Data, Update Tools, and then the Ontology again.

After the last step, a red window popped up saying that I had to activate the Object Thesaurus or the denomination field would be deactivated. I checked immediately and found that the denomination field was already deactivated.

However, the red warning didn't appear until after I updated the Ontology. Presumably because it jumped straight to the final version, and no one obviously could have anticipated that we hadn't updated yet.

To avoid making things worse, I paused the update for now. Curiously, we are now on Code version 6.8.0, Data version 6.7.4, and Ontology 6.8.8.

That’s why I’d like to ask how we should proceed from here. Should we revert to the backup and start over? I also haven’t figured out how to activate the Object Thesaurus yet, but that might be because, as I understand it, the thesaurus becomes invisible once you’ve applied the update, as we’ve already done.

best

Markus

Alex

Hi @Markus

The 6.8.0 change the old Denominations section to convert and include the denominations data into an object thesaurus. As you can read in this post, the change comes transform your data into a terms behind the coin node of the object thesaurus.

If you don't update your data you will have a unsynchronised versions as you mentioned.

ok, first, the update will specify the steps to do:

The most important point is all relative to object thesaurus, because the update will transform your data.

1 check if you have installed the object thesaurus.

in maintenance panel: Administrattion->maintenance, locate the Install hierarchies panel

In the panel check if the «Object» thesaurus is active or not, if not, active it.

2 See, into the thesaurus tree, if you have the «Object» hierarchy and if you have a node named «Coin» the tree.

If you don't have it. create new node, as any other thesaurus node, and name it as «Coin»

3 Edit the Coin node and include in «External sources» the Nomisma URI for coin (as this topic explains):

4 See the Thesaurus model tree for the «Objects», in menu select the «Models»:

And create the nodes to identify the different typologies of the objects, for example:

You can follow this example or not, the most important thing is to create a node for «Denominations» and include the Nomisma definition for denomination:

5 When you have the object thesaurus with both definitions. Coin and Denomination you can run the data update. And the process will move your data into the object thesaurus tree.

Active the maintenance mode for update the installation:

Note: Only root user can activate the «Maintenance mode», so, if you don't see the button, logout and login with the «root» account.

Update your data:

Note: the «Update data» button ONLY appears if Dédalo is in maintenance mode (with root user) Administration users can't perform this operation.

6 Perform other updates as normal.

When all updates process finishes, remember to «Deactivate» the maintenance mode, clicking again in «Check config» panel.

I hope is clear, if you need help, don't hesitate to ask.

Best

Markus

Dear Alex,

Thank you so much for the detailed explanations. That was exactly what I needed. I just ran the update and everything worked out. My main problem was that I hadn't understood from the thread where to activate the Object Thesaurus and where to add new entries to the thesaurus so that the denomination field would work again. That's why the step-by-step instructions here were so important to me.

Best